Taking the plunge into content marketing w/Torben Robertson

A podcasting agency that helps B2B brands start podcasts to connect with prospects,grow brand awareness,and create better content.Now,if you're a B2B marketer,it's easy to assume.I think that all B2B brands are deep into the content marketing pool,but some companies,in fact,many companies are.Really just getting started,which I imagine can be a little intimidating starting out when you're faced with so many tech platforms and so many strategies and different channels that you need to consider.My guest today is in fact dealing with the challenge of ushering the company he works for into the wild world of content marketing.Torbin Robertson,welcome to the show.It's great to have you.

Thanks very much for having me,Jamie.

So Tobin,introduce yourself.Just briefly say little bit about your role and where you work.

Yeah,for sure.So I have been a content marketer for a short while now,but interested in content marketing for a long time.I work for a company called Car Data,and we are a vehicle reimbursement provider.Were an alternative to.Traditional fleets.So we offer companies the opportunity to reimburse their employees who bring their own cars to work.We sort of offer a tax-free car allowance and One of the things that I've been doing at Car Data over the last,about two years now is really building up a blog,and that's kind of been the anchor for our content strategy.And our starting point is building up a robust resource where prospects and existing customers can kind of come and find out everything they need to know about a fairly niche space,something that.You're not generally familiar with until you start reading about it,until maybe one of these programs comes to your company.And so I've been very invested in developing that initial resource where people can start their learning journey about tax-free car allowances.

Okay.Very cool.Now,card data's been around for a while,right?

That's correct.Yeah.Card date is actually about23years old.The company was recapitalized rejuvenated a couple years ago,and we're sort of in a new phase of our journey.But we have been around since1999,I believe is our,our founding date.I've been here since2021.

Okay,so what's your understanding of what marketing looked like before you came along and before you started building out content marketing?

Yeah,that's a good question and.I think for car data,it was we're,we've always been very focused on the customer,so I think in the past we had a lot of one-to-one kind of marketing activities,and then we would build out case studies as a result of our sort of engagements with different clients.We didn't have too much.Production,although there were a few assets that I believe were used over long periods of time.So we had maybe10videos and10blog posts or something of that nature.And we had press releases and and case studies,and we relied on these extensively and it worked in its own way.

Okay,so you were doing a little bit of content marketing,sort of proto content marketing.

Yeah,I,I'm not sure if anybody at the time,and some of these fine folks are still my colleagues.I'm not sure if they would've described it as content marketing.I'm not sure what they would've described it as.Probably just marketing.it's,at least in my own career,I.Didn't really realize at first that you could call yourself a content marketer and that would be enough tasks.You know,when I started I was a marketer,kind of a generalist,and maybe if you had asked one of my colleagues,you know,three,four years ago what they were doing,they might have just said marketing or advertising.

Yeah.That's interesting.I,I feel like,as the host of a podcast called the B2B Content Show,I should know this,but I'm sort of wondering,you know,when did the phrase content marketing really catch on and become a thing?I don't know.

That's a good question as well.There are.Some books on content marketing,like books with content marketing in the title that have been released like over the last10years.But like it's,I'd say that,you know,I would be surprised to learn that.People with content marketing in their title just as sort of a,a heuristic.I would be surprised to learn that they've been working in the those roles for like more than15years.However,Pardon me.What I have read is that you know,in these books,in books about content marketing,the titles are escaping me right now,pardon me.But people argue,you know,content marketing has always existed.We're just kind of branding it now.We're just calling it content marketing for the first time.But basically,content marketing is as old as marketing itself.

Good point.Right?I think that's exactly true.It's just now it's,it's called something else.But in any case that the,the concept,the,the contemporary concept of content marketing has certainly become very,very prominent.And so for,for car data,which has been around for quite a while,why now,sort of what's brought the company to this moment where they've decided like,okay,we need to bring in Tobin and we need to up our content marketing game.

Yeah,that's a great question.And I think that the,the number one reason is that.We have started to see it working a little bit.We have started to see our efforts,especially with content writing,begin to drive actual business results.And that's a great signal because it doesn't,that signal doesn't always come right away.You sort of send your,your content out into the world,and there's not necessarily an immediate response.It doesn't always bounce back right away.Sometimes it takes a long time for that signal to hit the target and come back to you and then,and then,you know,finally that it has worked.So that's one reason it's working.It's driving business results in the way that we had always hoped and expected it would.And then secondly is that we have the right people in place in order to actually take A step in this direction because it's something that needs internal buy-in.It's something that needs a lot of collaboration.It's a very resource intensive practice to produce like original,interesting content.So having the right team built out and having the the proof.The the you know,the,the,the financial proof essentially that this practice is worthwhile is,those are the two reasons that we've decided to,to go this way right now and,and,and invest more heavily in content marketing.

Yeah.Okay.Well that seems like the best,those seem like the best reasons,right?It's,Hey,it,it's working.Let's do more of this.That's pretty good business strategy.

Yeah,for sure.And it's also scalable,right?And well,there's,there's,there's a few reasons that cuz other things work too,right?Like we also have PPC programs at Carta and those work too.But the big difference in any company between pay per click and organic is.Once you turn off the money on paper,click,the leads stop coming in.But I could stop work tomorrow on my content projects and all of the content projects that I've already accomplished would continue to drive business results until they got taken off the website,I suppose.

Right.Great distinction.So if,if you can build out content that you own,in other words,that's gonna keep paying off for you.As long as it exists,as,as long as you keep updating it and,and so on,and,and make it good.

Yeah,that's a good point.Like content can go stale.That's something you absolutely want to avoid.And so there is some,there are some maintenance fees on,on content,but overall,I think that,especially when you're competing in like difficult B2B industries,There's such a high price tag on converting leads with ppc.So content can be cheaper.

Yeah.Okay.

mean it's cheap,but it can be cheaper,

Yeah.And so you can,you can make a good strong business case for content marketing that has to be supported with before too long with some data that shows like,ah,yes,this is actually bringing some return on this investment.

Yeah,for sure.And you know,one way to kind of like prove,you know,if I were to give advice to myself a,a,a year or two ago or,or to somebody who's really wants to build out the content marketing function within,within the company is like,Give some content,spend time working on content for other divisions.Spend time working on content for PPP C and for sales because they're the people who can prove early on that what you're saying is resonating.And then over time,It'll start to drive organic results on Google search,but you can't expect that on day one.Actually,you probably can't expect that on day90.You need like365days or something like that before it really starts paying off there.I'm sure there are like expert SEOs out there who will disagree with me and say,well,you know,I managed to get something to rank on page one in.15days.I'd say that that is probably the exception,and the rule is more like if you're going from zero to one,your content marketing practice is gonna take a long time to generate buzz on.Google Google search,but you can make an impact on day one with your contact content practice by beefing up sales enablement,by working on excellent landing pages for your PPC campaigns and having and making content creation and distribution a.Multifaceted practice within your business,making it a pillar of the,of the business.And then you can build out the other functions around it.You can build out BDR outreach around it,you can build out PPC around it.So creating that content and finding ways to distribute it beyond seo,because search engine marketing is just one way to get the content out there.

Yeah.Wow.Great point.That,that sounds like really great advice to,especially when you're just starting out with content marketing to make the case,like you said,go create content for functions that,where you have a better likelihood of getting more immediate results.That's a really good idea.

Yeah.And,and then,you know,let's say,let's say an AE or a bdr sends it to a prospect,they'll hear back about that,and then you'll have some feedback right away.I would just,I would just be,you know,I've,I've,I've luckily had patient Managers and KPIs that have allowed me to experiment,and that's really important.But if you're not in a situation like that,How do you anticipate future SEO results?How do you prove before you've actually seen explosive growth on your website or more deals coming through the pipeline directly from Google search?How do you prove that content marketing is worthwhile?And I would just look around for other departments and see what they need.

Hmm,great,great advice.So you're working on building out the blog.else?Give us a picture of kind of the,the larger content marketing strategy as you're developing it.

So,because I think that in part because we're in like a very niche space a space that maybe people haven't encountered before.A space that's governed by compliance rules as well.It's a regulated space governed by IRS tax code,for example.A lot of our efforts are geared towards education,and so we're trying to find ways of reaching out to people.And educating them on our industry space and also on topics that our likely readers are going to care about.So if it's not exactly related to our.Product,that's fine,as long as it's related to a way in which we can help our clients and our future clients,and how that manifests is in a few different ways.So LinkedIn is a big channel for us.If you go to our LinkedIn page right now,you'll see.What we're calling education carousels.So an education carousel is a very rich social media post,kind of like an infographic,but something that you can swipe through to learn a lot in only a few sentences about a challenging topic.That's something that we've been voting at recently.We're also working on.New videos finding opportunities to engage people who maybe aren't big readers or who just don't have the time to read a1500word blog post about a topic,finding a way to deliver the critical information to them that they need to know in the span of a two minute video or,or something of that nature.And then finally,and I'm sure you'll be very interested in this,we are thinking of launching a podcast.In the next little while here,go podcasts and one of our big interests in launching this podcast is really hearing from the community,going out to people and finding guests and seeing what they want to talk about instead of forcing our own narrative on other people,which is something that you can maybe.Fall prey to fairly often when you're doing seo,content writing,you know,pushing your own narrative.Instead of that,in our podcast and in other approaches that we're taking,we're trying to hear back from the community what do they need to know about and how can we,as the experts in that domain communicate this knowledge to them.

Mm-hmm.You,you're a hundred percent right.When we,we,you mentioned to me before we were doing prep for this call,you guys are thinking about podcasting.Of course.That just warms my heart.It's just so cool.You know,I'd love to see B2B brands getting into podcasting and I.And you bring up something really interesting that I've thought a lot about and,and I'm on board with you,you know,that one thing I like about podcasts is they lend themselves so naturally to doing what you just said,bringing in other perspectives to having conversation with another person that maybe is a little harder to do in a very short video.

Yeah,a hundred percent.And you know,at the end of the day,like we're here to serve our customers and the community and.The first part of that is listening to what they have to say.

Yeah,I,that's just one of the best ways to gather information about your market,right,about your audience and,and ha having a forum that kind of gives you like a reason to have conversations with people that has nothing to do with selling them anything.Right.That's just key to I,I think that's one of the big values of having a podcast that just gives you this ability to.Really talk to anyone you want to talk to cuz they feel comfortable,like you're not gonna try to sell them basically.

Yeah,a hundred percent.I feel like that's such an underrated aspect of podcasting,or maybe not underrated,but an aspect of podcasting that Should really be recognized is forcing a conversation about something meaningful and intentional.So you're sitting down with somebody,you're committing to spending this much time talking about any topic,whether that's the topic related to my industry,yours,or whatever else in the world.Podcasting is a way to like,Force you to have a conversation in as eloquent a way as possible in a confined period of time.And what it generates,I think is like some of the most interesting content available.You know,it's professional,it's meaningful.It's all of these great things,but it all starts with just agreeing to sit down and talk with audio equipment for half an hour or an hour or what have you.

Yeah.Right.That's exactly right.I mean,ideally you're not forcing anyone to do anything,but I know what you mean.You know,that,that you're,you're,it creates a kind of a,a setting where you can have a discussion about something that's both at,at the one hand,a little bit planned out so you know what you're talking about,and you,you end up with a coherent piece of content,but it's not overly scripted,so you're having an actual,real conversation.With all that that entails,it can go different directions.It might take some surprising twists and turns,and that's good content.

Yeah,100%.

Yeah.So as you're heading into this sort of brave new world of content marketing what do you think are gonna be some of the bigger challenges you'll have to deal with?

I think that the,the biggest challenge for most content marketers is probably time.It takes a long time to put any piece of content together whether that's like a really interesting rich blog post or a podcast episode,it's a big investment and.Sometimes it doesn't work out.So you've invested all this time in a given piece of content and it doesn't get approved,or you send it out to the world and nobody looks at it.Nobody reads it.So then you spend all this time on something and then you have to spend all the time making something else or,or rewriting the thing that you've done.And.That can be both a hindrance and it can be demoralizing.So the way that I'm kind of anticipating this is by looking at,you know,all the tools that we can leverage.One of the great things about podcasting in particular,and especially podcasting with the video on,is it kind of cuts that time down in a,in a,in a couple different ways.So,If I want to produce a series or a set of content pieces on a given topic,a podcast with video is maybe the easiest way to do it because

Mm-hmm.

then you have,after you've recorded the episode,video,audio,and a transcript,and those three things can be turned into a whole plethora of content pieces that are.Infinitely faster to produce,or at least three times as fast than if you made a piece of writing an audio recording and a video separately.So finding efficiencies like that is one way in which you can kind of cut down the.Immense amount of time required to actually be an effective content team.Recycling is so important.Whether that's recycling a blog post for social media posts or a case study for a section on the website.Finding ways to reuse the content that you've already created is essential,and then also being very diligent about what you choose to create.Because you can get weeks into a content project and then if you weren't careful about planning it,find out that there's no way you can say something that you were planning to say.

Mm-hmm.

you might have just overlooked this.Right?And it goes up the approval chain a little bit and they say,heck no.And that's a bad position to be in if you spend a lot of time on something.So making sure you know,What is available to you before you begin and making sure you know what topics are important to your prospects,because you can talk all day about ketchup,but if you're,if your community wants mustard,they're not interested.

Yeah,that's right.People have strong feelings about mustard versus ketchup.You want to,you want to be

You wanna be careful there.

argument.So well torman such great stuff.One last final question.How can people connect with you?

LinkedIn is a good way and you can probably find further contact info on the on the LinkedIn page.I don't have my privacy settings dialed up too high there,so yeah,I think it's linkedin.com/in/tobin Robertson.Or you can just Google Tobin Robertson and I'm bound to come up.My my name is pretty unique.It has actually pretty good seo.So,you're bound to find me with just a simple Google search,and I hope to hear from your community on LinkedIn or elsewhere.

Excellent.Well,yeah,you do have a good SEO O name.Na name,A good SEO name.Good point.And we'll make it easy for listeners.We'll put a link to your LinkedIn in the show notes,so

very much.

no need to Google it.Well,Tobin,thank you so much for an excellent conversation and,and best of luck with all the content marketing.

Thank you very much Jeremy.